'AITA for expecting physical intimacy on a date night with my wife?' UPDATED 8X

"AITA for expecting physical intimacy on a date night with my wife?"

My wife and I generally have a great relationship. Last night, however, I learned from my wife that she has been on a# strike for most of the last month due to some comments I made following our last date night (which was about a month ago). As background, I arrange a date night each month for the two of us.

I plan a dinner somewhere nice, arrange a babysitter, feed our three kids dinner, and otherwise handle all of the logistics so that all she has to do is show up. Typically, we will grab drinks somewhere after dinner (sometimes meeting up with friends for the drinks portion, and other times going just the two of us). Earlier this month, I planned an evening out and we had a fantastic dinner together.

After dinner, I proposed that we go to a nearby wine bar, my wife (who had been texting with the wife of a couple we are close friends with), asked if we could go meet up with them for drinks instead. I was fine with that, so we headed towards a nearby bar that they had proposed.

However, the other couple's dinner ran later than ours, and by the time it ended, the wife was tired and decided she wanted to go to bed. As such, her husband ended up taking her home and then joining us at the local bar they had proposed. Around 11:45 we had to leave to relieve our babysitter. My wife was having fun and didn't want the evening to end, so she invited our friend over for another drink.

I told her I was fine with that, but that I was hoping to be in bed by 1:00 a.m. (as background, I do the morning shift with our three kids every day and they get up early). My wife promised that we'd be in bed by then. Our friend came over, we opened a bottle of wine, put on some music, and we're all having a good time.

1:00 comes around and he gets up to go, but my wife tells us we can't leave, as she is vibing. I stick around for another 10 minutes or so and then decide to call it, as I was getting pretty tired. My wife tells me she will be up in another 10 minutes. I get ready for bed (which takes about that long) and don't hear her coming, so I go to bed.

Around 3:00, I get woken up by her coming into our bedroom (she was drunk at this point and made a lot of noise). I'm now wide awake, and if that happens, it usually takes me a while to go back to sleep (in this case, it took me until around 5:00, which was fun when the kids woke up at 6:30).

Anyways, at this point, since I'm now wide awake, I ask her if she'd want to have s#x (probably not the most romantic, I know). She declines, as she is tired and wants to go to sleep. Fair enough, I don't push the issue, and and she immediately falls asleep.

However, I can't sleep now due to being woken up, and sit there and stew for a few hours (mostly frustrated at being woken up but also annoyed at how the evening went overall).

My first mistake was sending her a text (while she is asleep) saying that her actions that evening were hurtful and that it felt like I planned this nice evening, only for her to end up spending the later part of it with someone else (and not like that - I am 100% confident they were just listening to music and chatting). The next morning, she came downstairs apologetic.

However, I made the mistake of mentioning that her actions made me not really want to plan these extravagant date nights anymore, as she had broken her promise about going to bed at a reasonable hour and then ruined my sleep (not the first time this has happened on a date night).

Then (and this is where I may be the AH), I added that this was at least the fourth date night in a row where the night had ended with us not being intimate, and that in my mind, a good date night ends with that. I also added that this one was particularly offensive because it felt like she abandoned me at the end of the night.

These comments really upset her, and she said they made her feel like I only appreciate her for her body. She added that date nights should be about having fun and enjoying her company, and that I should assume we won't get lucky on date nights.

Honestly, I have some sympathy for her perspective about enjoying each other's company being the most important part of a date night, but I also don't think it is unreasonable to feel a little let down after planning a romantic evening, especially since it had become a pattern, and particularly where she effectively choose to do something else rather than be with me. So internet, what do we think? AITA?

Not long after posting, OP shared an update.

Updates: Well, this surprisingly took off. A few responses to commonly asked questions:

Why involve friends on date night? Because she asked - it wasn't what I had planned, but I do try to make her happy.

2. How often do we normally do the deed? Two to three times a week, which is honestly pretty good for having three young children, although the distribution tends to be a little uneven (i.e. we might have it 5 times one week and then only once the next). I also try to be a generous partner, and almost always try to get her off first (unless she just asks for a quickie).

3. How did I not notice the intimacy strike that was going on for almost a month? I intentionally took a week off from initiating in an effort to show I wasn't just about the physical, and then I caught a severe sickness at the end of that week, and then she got her period, and then we went on a trip (where intimacy is hard with small kids).

So even if she hadn't been intentionally withholding, there wouldn't really have been an opportunity for it. Just a really unfortunate series of events that happened one after the other.

We also did slip in a couple of sessions in there where she initiated (in what she called "moments of weakness") - frankly, we both like being physical, but she is sometimes willing to hurt/penalize herself to prove a point. Also, we've had 4 or 5 stretches in the past where we have gone many months without it due to childbirth / major surgery / depression. I do truly care for my wife, and I'm willing to play the long game.

4. Why are you not worried about your wife being with a male friend late at night? We're very close to this couple, and they are probably over at our house at least once a week. The husband in particular is close friends with both me and my wife. His wife works very early in the morning, so she pretty much always goes to bed very early.

As such, he is often left alone at night, and he frequently ends up at our place (where we play drink, play board games or cards, listen to music, play guitars, etc.). It is not at all unusual for him to come over and stay late at our place, as my wife and I stay up much later than his wife. It was only weird (and frustrating) because my wife invited him over on a date night.

Our friend is also a really solid guy - he's probably the safest person I could think of to hang out with my wife who is a guy. I know the optics aren't great and that if I were a third party I'd probably think something shady is going on - just knowing the people involved, it's not something I am concerned about.

I'm confident our friend intended to come over for just a drink - he did in fact try to leave, and he had even called an uber - my wife grabbed his phone and cancelled it. And I do think they did just lose track of time. We had a brief power outage the day before so our living room clock was not working.

5. What happened on the other three dates? On one, we had met up with a large group of friends at a bar after dinner and we were all having fun. Unfortunately, one of us had to relieve the babysitter. I kindly offered to go home and let her stay out with the crew (many of our friends stay out late - most have family or a full-time nanny that can do overnights).

She ended up staying out until after 3:00 and was blackout when she got back, so I helped her get into bed and called it a night. On another, we got into an argument over something stupid at dinner and it ruined the mood.

On the third, she just was very tired by the time we got home and wanted to go to sleep (which is totally valid - I didn't complain or push it). This wasn't really a pattern of any specific behavior on her part - I was more just frustrated that circumstances seemed to always conspire to prevent the ideal date night from occurring, and this one being foiled was definitely her fault.

6. Why did your wife stay up so late? My wife is a bit of a night owl. Her ideal schedule is probably to stay up until 12 or 1 and then sleep in until 9. And on the weekend when she is having fun, she would easily stay up until 2 or 3.

This is something that we have argued about in the past, as once she gets going she doesn't like to stop (which she admits isn't the best), which always leaves me needing to be the responsible one. I've told her in the past that I'd gladly stay up until 3:00 with her if she agrees to do the morning shift the next day, but she has always declined on the basis of that not being enough sleep.

7. How is your division of labor? I work a high pay, long hours job, and my wife is a SAHM. When I'm at work I'm obviously gone and she takes care of the kids. When I'm not working, I probably do 60% of the household labor and she does 40% - I try to do the heavy lifting with the kids when I'm home because taking care of three young kids is exhausting, and I know she appreciates the break.

In particular, I do the morning shift, which we both view as the worst one. She is definitely appreciative of all the household labor I do, and has stated she recognizes that I do more than any of our male friends.

8. Is your wife a good mom? She's a fantastic mom - really, truly fantastic. She puts in a ton of effort making our kids' lives fun and full of whimsy. She's all their friends' favorite mom since she's fun and cares about them.

She goes 100% when taking care of the kids, which I think is why she sometimes parties perhaps too late and doesn't want the night to end, as taking care of kids really is draining, especially if you go max effort.

9. How is your relationship otherwise? We both do thoughtful things for one another. I make her coffee every morning and leave a note for her next to the mug. She helps my mom with tech support (which is a true act of love - I did it for years and hated it). I buy her flowers about once a week and will randomly surprise her with small gifts.

She will buy me less frequent (but larger and more thoughtful) gifts. If you take s#x out of the equation, the relationship is great (and until a few weeks ago I would have told you that was great too).

10. Are you an unreliable narrator? I hope not? I think if you asked my wife what happened, she would agree with essentially everything I've said.

I think she would probably just add some additional background information, the big one being that we have had arguments about the bedroom in the past. We had a bad argument about 9 months ago that led to about a month-long hiatus after I complained to her that we never done it while on vacation (and we probably take 10 or so trips a year, although many of them are just for long weekends).

Her view was that we usually have kids in a room directly adjacent to us (and often other adults, since we typically do an AirBnB with friends or go to a friends' vacation home), and that she would be mortified if our kids or friends heard us.

It's honestly a valid point, and she convinced me of it (I stopped trying on vacation unless she initiates (which she still does periodically)), but she did feel that I was ungrateful in light of all the normal intimacy we were having, and that she needed to reset expectations so that $#x was special rather than a usual occurrence. I get the sense that her current s#@ strike is essentially the same thing.

11. Is this fake? Unfortunately, no. I'm very much a real human. Beep boop beep boop.

And soon after that, he added yet another update.

Update: We had a great discussion last night (and some great s#x) and are fully reconciled. I apologized for making her feel like I was primarily valuing her for providing sex (it's not true, but my comments made her feel that way) and not appreciating how much we were already having.

She apologized for ruining the last date night. She spoke to her sister about it yesterday and her sister told her inviting someone else over on your date night was really stupid. So in the future, she said she wants date nights to be just the two of us - we can do meet ups with others on other days.

This was what I was going to ask for but she beat me to it. I also promised not to complain again (even where, like in this case, it was not the primary complaint but part of a larger complaint) and not to send grumpy texts while she is sleeping (and instead just talk to her in the morning). So communication wins again!

The commenters didn't hold back.

Pebbles197053 wrote:

I think you should stop meeting up with friends for drinks after dinner. If it’s a date night it should be about just the two of you.

CuriosityRover12 wrote:

Why involve friends on date nights?

abnormallycliche responded:

The dude still thinks that isn’t one of the big problems. You’re complaining about intimacy yet completely okay that your date night gets sidetracked with other parties involved. How do you expect to reconnect and be romantic when you involve other people?

Hanging out with friends should be its own thing. And this isn’t even mentioning the whole inviting him back and letting him hang with your wife while you go to bed…

SlipperyPickle6969 wrote:

Well here's a crazy idea. How about on your DATE NIGHT WITH YOUR WIFE...you don't meet up with friends???? Wouldn't it be helpful if it's time for just the two of you, or is dinner alone just too much alone time and you need other people to entertain you??? Because obviously your wife enjoyed being entertained by someone else over you.

A month later, OP shared another update.

Whelp, I posted about a month ago about how I was upset my wife invited our friends back over to our house at the end of a date night, and she and the husband ended up hanging out until 3:00 a.m. after I went to bed at 1:00. A lot of people suggested they were having an affair, and that I was blind to not see it.

I swore and swore there was no way, I trust both of them, etc. Turns out, the internet was right. I was unpacking the car and my wife had left her phone in there, and when I picked it up a text from our friend flashed across saying how he wanted to kiss her and asking her to tell me she needed a night out and should go out to the bar with him.

I know its an invasion of privacy, but we know one another's passcodes, so I opened her phone and checked their text chain. She had been deleting his messages but they were still in the deleted messages folder, and it wasn't great.

They've been going on dates during the day when I'm at work, and he has said very suggestive things to her. I confronted my wife about it and she claimed it was purely an emotional affair, that she knew he loved her, and enjoyed the attention, and that she had been dealing with severe depression (which is true) and it was nice to have someone to talk to who wasn't me.

That she still loved me - it was just very flattering to have the attention. I don't know whether that is all true or not, but I honestly do think she is telling the truth - she pretty much argued it wasn't that big of a deal because they didn't do anything physical outside of him kissing her once, and in her defense the suggestive texts all came from him.

So I don't know where we will end up - just reality shattering because I would have never thought either would betray me like this.

TL:DR: The internet was right - they were having an affair.

The comments kept coming in.

virtualchoirboy wrote:

First, look up "trickle truthing." You have not yet been given the full story. She's also going to continue to cheat on you. A cheater that regrets their actions wouldn't try to minimize them.

Second, tell his wife. She needs to know that her partner is betraying her too. Third, go get a consultation with a divorce lawyer or two. Consultation doesn't mean filing. It means learning what the process is like and what the potential outcomes are. I'm sorry you're going through this.

controvro69 wrote:

EMOTIONAL AFFAIR IS STILL CHEATING (SCREAMING)
the audacity of her to argue that its not a "big deal" and worse, OP giving excuses for her in the comments.

Commercial-Editor807 wrote:

Man...you are being waaaay too naïve here! I would put good money on the fact that this dude slept with your wife while you were upstairs sleeping. But, ignoring that. This dude was supposed to be your friend? Did you tell his wife who you are also supposed to be friends with?

Feisty-Class-1501 wrote:

Your responses have convinced me that you are one of the most naive and gullible suckers in this world. “Only emotional.” lol. “She still loves you.” lol. “Only kissed once.” Hahhhahahahahah. Bro I bet you think adult dancers love you too. I also have this Nigerian Prince that just needs you to send him 10k.

Also, I have a sure fire investment opportunity for you with a 1000% profit return. In all seriousness, what you should do: Tell the guy’s wife. Hope you were smart enough to save the evidence for your divorce. Tell your kid before your wife spins a story to make you into the bad guy. Kick her out of the house.

Find someone better that is worth your loyalty and time. What you will do. Be a pushover lowering yourself by forgiving her. Eventually lose her respect and respect for yourself by trying to win her back. Lose your family and friends and become a laughing stock while she continues seeing him behind your back and probably in your own bed while you’re at work.

theworldisonfire8377 wrote:

Do you really believe that between the hours you went to bed the night of the date, and when she came stumbling to bed drunk (and denied you intimacy, gee I wonder why) that they didn't do anything? Seems pretty obvious that she wouldn't want to be with you right after she just got finished with him.

I wouldn't believe a thing that came out of her mouth anymore. She lied right to your face so many times. I'm sorry she did this to you. But I don't think you have the whole story yet.

Four days later, OP shared another update.

I had a true heart to heart with my wife two days after I learned of the emotional affair, and we are surprisingly in a really good place now. She apologized profusely, and her description and timeline of events is not as bad as I had feared.

It is also consistent with what my former friend (we'll call him R) told me when I interrogated him (and I asked him first, before my wife would have really had a chance to collaborate on a story in the event she wanted to do so).

It is also consistent with what my wife's sister has told me (she views me like a brother and is a true ally). As backstory, R and his wife have been going through marital issues for quite some time. We were aware of this.

About 6 months ago, things really went into a tailspin, and he started talking to my wife almost as a therapist (I know this sounds weird but my wife is really good at listening to people's troubles and providing insight - she does this for a bunch of friends (admittedly essentially all women)). It started out like once a week or so, and gradually increased from there.

By a couple of months ago, they were talking regularly (i.e. several times a week), but still only covering totally P.C. topics. My wife's sister actually confronted my wife and warned her that she thought R had fallen for her and that she needed to be careful. My wife was convinced that they were just good friends.

The night of the infamous date night was actually still in this period - my wife admitted that the optics looked bad, but she really was just having a good time (and was frankly pretty drunk and not thinking clearly). She did say though that after that night she realized that he might have feelings for her (and that in retrospect it was pretty obvious).

She felt bad about the date night fiasco, and has been much better in that regard (and she also reduced her alcohol consumption). About 6 weeks ago, we went on a ski trip with 5 other families (including R and his wife). It was a horrible trip for him, and he and his wife fought a lot. One of the nights, he got pretty drunk and asked my wife to meet him at the bar at our hotel, since he needed to talk.

While there, he told her that he loved her and wished that he had married her rather than his wife. My wife just told him "I'm sorry." I had been putting the kids to bed when this went down and came down and inadvertently interrupted them right after they said this (I do remember some weird vibes in retrospect).

My wife admitted she should have told me right then and there, but that she didn't want to blow up the trip for the whole friend group, as if she told me she was worried that I might make a scene. He then didn't say anything problematic for another week or two, and she chalked it up to him just being really drunk and really sad, and hoped things could just go back to normal.

Unfortunately, R's marriage took a turn for the worse about a month ago, and it seems pretty clear that they are getting divorced. My wife (who suffers from severe depression) also went into a depressive period around this time, in large part due some familial issues.

This was timed very poorly, as I recently launched a new division at my company and have been working 60 hour week for the last three months or so. Both R and my wife felt isolated and lonely, and R started calling my wife virtually every day. They also started grabbing lunch once or twice a week (I guess he would meet her for lunch on his lunch break).

The vast majority of their interaction was them talking about life, but he started saying inappropriate things in person like "you're the most beautiful woman I know" or "you're gorgeous". He also started drinking heavily, and he would send suggestive texts when drinking (which my wife claims she would just ignore).

The time he kissed her I was actually home - the three of us had been hanging out and I went to use the restroom. I asked her why she didn't tell me or shut things down, and she admitted it was a mixture of not wanting to blow up our friend group plus her enjoying the attention and compliments, even if she had no interest in the guy.

She chuckled a little bit when I asked if she had slept with him (for reference, R is probably 150+ pounds overweight, which is one of the major strains in his marriage, whereas my wife is a true 10/10).

Basically, she was depressed, needed someone to talk to, and since I was so busy with work, she found that emotional support elsewhere. She admits that it was really wrong, and has agreed to take a bunch of actions to prevent this in the future.

For me, I still struggle with why she would do some of this - e.g. if he texts that you should come over and join him in the shower, and you respond why don't we do a lunch date instead, from my view that is pouring gasoline on a fire (by showing you still want to meet with him), whereas she thought she was steering things away from problematic situations (something shady can't happen in a public setting).

She said he came by the house a couple of times during the day (including once when our son was home with her), but that she really tried to steer things to public settings once she knew he loved her. It also does hurt a bit that in one of the texts R asked if they could do a lunch date and she says no, my husband (me) is working from home today, with a sad face.

But we're going to make it work. We are going to do couples therapy and she wants to do individual therapy, and she also started working part-time to keep her busy on something else. We can't go fully non-contact with R, but now all communication has to include me.

I am also going to work on being more emotionally present, even when working a ton, and I told her that if she is having a depressive episode and needs to talk to someone, she can always call me - her mental well-being is more important than my work (she was afraid to call during the day since I am very busy and would call R instead).

I also promised to work on being happier and more positive - I am usually a very cheerful person (which is something she loved about me), but I had been pretty grumpy and miserable over the last few months due to my job being crazy.

So a little blame does rest with me (I'm certainly not perfect, although I'd never cheat on my partner). I know most of you will probably roll your eyes and say I'm being a push-over, but none of you know how amazing my wife is. She has a magnetic personality and is the life of a party. She is also one of the brilliant people I have ever met. She's a great mom, and my best friend.

And finally, she's a bombshell - when she is dolled up, most heads turn when she enters a room. If you've ever seen Wedding Crashers, she is (in both personality and appearance) eerily similar to Isla Fisher's character (although she is better looking than Isla). I honestly can't blame R for falling for her - but I can blame him for acting on it.

Dumb? Maybe. But my wife is too amazing to let go over this without a fight, especially when she seems committed to fixing things (and actually apologetic - including for getting defensive the night I discovered it). I'll do an update in a few months. Hopefully things will be positive.

The comments kept coming.

ProcessorProton wrote:

Rolls eyes. She does not sounds very apologetic. Physical or not, emotional infidelity is just as harmful as physical. She can't just be okay with what she did. It was wrong. Very wrong.

OP responded:

She did seem very apologetic, and she wasn't looking for excuses when we spoke - she apologized and asked for forgiveness, and agreed what she did was very wrong. I was the one who drilled down onto the "why" - both for my own personal healing and to see how we can prevent this in the future.

processorproton responded:

You believe she regrets it? Does she see how her response about you working from home that day so she couldn't do lunch was hurtful? That's heartless.

OP responded:

I'm confident she regrets it. The question is how we move forward and prevent something like this again. It'll take a long time for me to fully trust her again, and I think I'll always have a little unease when she is texting (which she does a lot). But she does love me, despite her bad actions here.

Brincy0 wrote:

Does she regret getting caught and the effect of that, or does she regret hurting you?

The defensiveness taking priority seems to indicate the former not the latter.

OP responded:

Fair point. She was super defensive the night I confronted her out of the blue, but she was also drunk at the time. When we had a calm discussion a day later she was much more apologetic.

Four months later, OP shared another update.

The last few months have been a bit of a rollercoaster, but I'm happy to report that my wife and I are in a really good place at the moment and fully reconciled. There have been some wild moments though since discovery day:

Going non-contact with my former best friend ("Rick), only to have him call my wife several months later ( in the middle of a game night with friends, which was awkward) sobbing in his car and threatening to off himself.

I told her I was fine if she were to talk to him that night, since we were legitimately concerned he might off himself (and although, f him, he was my former best friend and I don't want him to die), but they spoke for like two hours that night and then he started texting her constantly (and called like 5 times the next day), forcing us to go non-contact with him again.

Running into Rick at a group event and him acting incredibly emo and moody (he sat in a corner and drank an entire bottle of whiskey out of an oversize Yeti).

Rick approaching me at said event and saying that he was on the verge of telling everyone about the affair because he just wants to burn everything down (my wife and I were able to convince him not to do so).

Learning that Rick had asked my wife to leave me, she said no, and he had told her he would wait however long she needed, even 15 years, so that they could be together. Rick becoming obsessed with my wife's sister (who is very similar to my wife). They now go out for drinks several times a week and talk daily.

My wife is convinced he is now in love with her. Awkwardly, my sister-in-law is separated but still lives with her soon-to-be ex-husband.

Rick is still married, but divorce is seemingly imminent.

In all this chaos, however, my wife and I have been doing very well. The shock of the affair forced us to work through our issues and we now communicate about as well as one could hope for, and have solved for most of the issues that led her to look outside our marriage for emotional support.

I'd love to be able to go back in time and prevent the affair, and I don't know if I'll trust anyone fully anymore, but it many ways it improved our relationship, which is a very strange thing to say.

The internet did not hold back their thoughts.

Baker_Street_1999 wrote:

"My wife and I are in a really good place at the moment."

(Morgan Freeman voice): “No, they’re not.”

Sharkwatcher314 wrote:

A more accurate comment is probably they are in a better place compared to right after the affair. Which is quite different than good.

Away-Understanding34 wrote:

I am concerned that Rick doesn't actually like your SIL and that he's just using her to stay close to your wife. He is sick and I wouldn't put anything past him.

Any_Time3277 wrote:

What a mess of a show. It’s amazing to see how you made a bad decision at (almost) every crucial turn.

A week later, OP shared another update.

In my last post, a lot of you expressed concern, surprise, or anger that my SIL was now meeting up with Rick. Those are all probably valid reactions to this news.

Yesterday, I decided that we should figure out what is going on between the two of them, and my wife and I reached out to SIL. I'm glad we did, because things just keep getting weirder and weirder. Rick and SIL have met up 5 or 6 times, either for coffee or drinks.

The most recent (and likely final) meet-up was actually at Rick's house one evening - his wife and daughter were out of town visiting family (Rick had to work and couldn't go) and he had the place to himself, so he invited SIL over for a drink. While hanging out, he told SIL that he believes he was married both to my wife and to SIL in prior lives, and that he is glad to have been reunited with them.

He then told SIL that she was beautiful and put his hand on the side of her face (as one might do to one's partner - in my view it is a fairly intimate act). This perhaps unsurprisingly freaked SIL out. To give her credit, she told Rick that he was being highly inappropriate, that he needed to stop, and that he couldn't keep taking someone trying to be a friend to him as showing interest in him.

She then scolded him for doing this first to my wife and then to her. It's the sort of thing I wish my wife had told him when he started being inappropriate with her. From what I understand, she then left.

She has been ghosting him since then. Rick has apparently frantically texted her dozens and dozens of times. SIL emphasized to us that she had no romantic interest in Rick and was just trying to be a friend to him. It's all just odd to me. I've known Rick for years and I feel like the current Rick is a stranger. It makes me wonder if I ever actually knew the real Rick - I guess not.

The internet continued to air their concerns.

YuXell411 wrote:

Definitely keep SIL away from Rick. He seems very unstable. From reading your other posts, there's something that I'm struggling to understand and that's why Rick's wife isn't told about what's happening.

I don't know about you, but it feels incredibly selfish to keep this from her. It makes you just as much an accomplice in the affair. I'm all for you and your wife trying to fix your marriage, but it's really hard trying to be sympathetic with your situation when there's hypocritical instances like this.

OP responded:

It's a fair point. Part of me wishes I had told her when I originally discovered everything. My wife talked me out of it. Rick's daughter is my daughter's best friend, and if Rick's wife knew it would most likely destroy that friendship. There's also a good chance my wife would get kicked out of the larger friend group, which would mean my kids would to a large extent also lose access to their closest friends.

I care about my kids immensely, and don't want that to happen to them, since it would be pretty devastating. But there are definitely days where I wake up and think I should just say "f it" and tell her.

Forward-Two3846 wrote:

OP, I think your wife convinced you not to tell the AP's wife because she (the wife) might be able to find proof of a physical affair. Honestly as it stands your wife has had no real consequences for her cheating.

Honestly she actually gained a more attentive husband out of the deal. What is to discourage your attention seeking wife from doing this again in the future when she feels like you are not enough again.

OP responded:

It's possible. I do think her arguments are valid though. And while she suffered no real consequences, she also does recognize this. She privately told her sister (who then relayed it to me) that she knows she got off easy and is trying her hardest to do the right thing and repay my grace towards her.

AAP_BH wrote:

You and your wife are AHs, plain and simple, you’re just as selfish as your wife no wonder you stayed. The fact that your wife’s “social standing” is more important than doing the right thing is sick. How can you even look at his wife and his daughter in the face?

This man had an affair with your wife, they kissed, so it was physical, he’s obsessed with her and you decide to not tell his wife?? When you find out they did sleep together or when you find your wife cheating on you again, you deserve no sympathy.

Two and a half months later, OP shared another update.

For the last few months, it seemed like this saga was finally behind me. But that is not how life works, and the phantom of Rick reared its head yet again. I opened my laptop and noticed that my wife had left her email account logged in. It was probably an invasion of privacy, but we had agreed that either of us could always look at the other’s phones, email, etc.

So I snooped and searched to see if Rick had ever emailed her. There were a few innocent emails and one that sent me into a rage. The email was from Rick to my wife’s work email and was truly unhinged – it was pages and pages of Rick professing his undying love to my wife.

In the email, Rick went on and on about how my wife cutting contact with him has broken him, how she is his soulmate and the only woman he has ever truly loved, and how he has tried for months to show her that he is the man for her and that he would be a better spouse than me (with a comment about how I don’t treat her like she deserves) and that he wants to help her raise our kids and his kid together.

He adds that she is the first person he thinks about when he wakes up and the last person he thinks about when he goes to sleep, that he cries every day thinking of her and knowing that she slipped away, and that his last thought in life when he passes away will be of her.

He then lists his favorite memories with her, such as the time they went on a lunch date together, hugging her so he can smell her, playing guitar for her, her smile, singing songs together, and the time they sat together and watched shooting stars.

(We did a family trip together but I had to fly out a day later than everyone else due to work and apparently the first night the two of them stayed up and watched shooting stars after everyone else went to bed.)

He then begs her to reconsider because he doesn’t want her to wake up one day 10 years from now and realize that she made a mistake staying with me, and that he is willing to wait until the day he dies to be with her because he will never stop loving her. He further adds he feels hurt that she seemingly enjoyed his attention but never had any intention of being with him.

As I noted above, finding this sent me into a rage, as I felt that my wife betrayed me by not telling me that Rick sent this. I am still a little hurt that she didn’t disclose it, but her perspective was that she had gone non-contact with him, he sent an email to try to get around being blocked on the phone, and that it was clearly unhinged so she just ignored it (which is true – she never replied).

She knew that I would be upset if I saw it, and that she and I are doing much better and she didn’t want to allow Rick to ruin things by being a jacka$$, especially when she has been doing right by me. I disagree with her logic and continue to believe that she should have immediately told me (and she understands that now and will do so if anything like this happens again), but I am not mad at her for it.

The peculiar thing is that discovering the email has massively improved my mental state and happiness. First, I now know with a high degree of confidence that nothing physical ever happened. My wife had already convinced me that this was the case, but this confirmed it. Rick would have at least tangentially mentioned it in his list of favorite memories if anything had occurred.

Second, the email confirmed that my wife had truly gone non-contact with him. A large portion of the email was about how being completely cut off from her was ruining him. Again, my wife had already convinced me that this was the case, but it is always nice to have external confirmation.

Third, it confirmed that while my wife acted inappropriately, she never really gave in to him – the email was in large part a story of unrequited love. Rick was upset in the email that he showered her with praise and attention but never really got anything out of it.

And finally, the email is the ramblings of a sad little man. As much as I personally suffered post-discovery of the affair, Rick has suffered to a much higher degree. He’s…not doing well, and this email showed the depths of his despair. Perhaps it is bad to admit, but I’ve been experiencing significant schadenfreude knowing that Rick has been suffering – he deserves it.

I’m furious at Rick. We had reached a détente a while back and I’ve been civil with him the last few times I’ve seen him. At one point I had straight up asked him to his face what his motives had been and what he had been trying to accomplish with respect to his relationship with my wife.

He had the nerve to tell me that he had no real plan or goal and was just sad and depressed and looking for a friend and admitted he had made a few drunk mistakes and wished he could take them back. The scumbag lied to my face – the email confirmed that he was trying to convince my wife to leave me, even after the affair had ended.

I’m inevitably going to run into him again before too long, and I don’t know how I am going to react, but probably not well. I really want to sock him, but I know that is probably not a mature choice, even if he deserves it.

My wife had an interesting perspective, which was that the most soul crushing way to get my revenge would be to grab her and kiss her right in front of him the next time we run into him, as it would flaunt that I have what he desired more than anything but could never have. And the more I have thought about it, the more I know she is right. Petty? Sure, but I could use some vengeance right now.

The internet was deeply invested.

Puddintamename wrote:

I love the idea of a kiss. Rick is stalking your wife. Not good at all. She handled it well. She probably didn't tell you because she feared an escalation, etc. The only AH in this is your ex friend.

Your wife is a victim. Not a perpetrator. You're stuck in the middle. As it's her idea for the kids, go for it. She wouldn't have suggested it if she didn't want AH to receive a clear message from both of you. As a strong unit.

OP responded:

Yeah the weirder this has gotten has really shown me that my wife was a victim in all of this too. She has some guilt, to be sure, but I have a ton of sympathy seeing how everything played out and how much of a bad actor he is. And she's even more sick of his crap than I am - she views him as an emotional terrorist.

Change2001 wrote:

Have you outed your ex-friend to your shared friends group? If not, it would not be a bad idea. If he is trying to hook up with your wife, he may also be trying it with other wives/GF's in the group. Likely the others in a shared group would not want a cheater around who has been trying, or likely to try, luring away another friend's wife/GF.

OP responded:

No. Our concern is that outing him blows up the friend group, and my wife and I will probably be blamed (at least partially) for not telling people sooner. I think there is a strong chance Rick divorces his wife and exits the group naturally, which solves the problem for us.

ImaginaryWorld851 wrote:

NTA. Rick's a jerk, but you're winning. Wife didn't cheat. She cut Rick off. His email proves it. You're mad, but don't hit him. It's not worth it. Your wife's idea to kiss in front of him? Pretty smart. Focus on your marriage. You've already got what he wants.

OP responded:

Yeah I love that I found the email because it essentially confirmed everything that my wife had told me. I did believe her, but it helped eliminate any nagging concern that I wasn't being told the whole story.

Five months later, OP shared another update.

A few weeks ago, I had a heartfelt discussion with my wife where we recapped everything that happened over the last year, and I asked her a bunch of probing questions that got into the why and how the affair happened.

I also gave her a one-time forgiveness window to get anything else off her chest, with the corresponding threat that if anything else material came out in the future, she’d be receiving divorce papers. I learned a lot, and while it doesn’t excuse my wife’s misdeeds, I can empathize with her and her predicament.

I now know that the emotional affair started earlier than she originally admitted, although it was a gradual shift from friendship to more, so it’s tough to pick a specific commencement date. It all started because Rick is fat, and my wife offered to help coach him on his weight loss journey.

My wife successfully got down to her high school weight after our third kid, and she thought that if Rick implemented her diet, he could get down to a more reasonable weight himself. Initially, this meant she called him a couple of times a week to check in and see what he was eating, give tips, and ask if he had any questions.

Apparently, they’d talk at the start of his lunch break, and she’d remind him to make good food choices. I was supportive of her coaching, as Rick was my best friend at the time and his weight was a major source of marital strife (his wife thinks he let himself go and nags him constantly about his poor food choices). It also worked, as he lost weight with my wife's support.

Over several months, they went from talking a few times a week to talking every weekday, and the topics expanded beyond Rick’s diet, with Rick’s marital issues becoming a major topic. My wife was now his therapist, in addition to his dietician. After a few months, my wife realized that Rick likely had an inappropriate attachment to her.

She told me that he referred to her as “goddess” and hung onto every word she said. But he also hadn’t done anything overtly inappropriate (yet), and my wife assumed that he was a solid guy and wouldn’t take things further. She also admitted that she found the attention flattering, since he treated her like the smartest and most interesting person in the world.

Things veered into fully inappropriate on Christmas Day of ’23. My wife had been debating some outfits for New Year’s Eve, and she texted a couple options to both me and him (separately) and asked for thoughts. Around 1:00 a.m. that night, Rick responded with a text saying “this one” underneath one of the dresses, and he attached a short video of him doing explicit things.

I’ve unfortunately seen the video. My wife should have immediately told me. Instead, she tried to pretend like it never happened. She rationalized it on the basis of Rick being very drunk (he got into a fight with his wife on Christmas and went on a drunken bender that night), and she assumed that sober Rick would never have sent that text.

She also knew that if she told me that it would blow up my friendship with Rick, and she was worried that it would taint the memory of Christmas for me. She also admitted that there was something a little flattering about knowing that she looked good enough in the outfit for someone to be fantasizing about her in it.

To my wife’s credit, she cut off contact with Rick for several weeks. She missed their calls, however, and after we went on a cruise with Rick and his family for my birthday, and Rick acted normally during it, she resumed their weekday calls. She told me that she hoped things could go back to the way they were.

Unfortunately, that wasn’t to be, and soon they were talking almost every day of the week (she’d talk to him on the weekends when I was off with the kids at their sporting events).

My wife’s sister actually warned her at this point that she felt the relationship was inappropriate, and my wife recognized that this was true but rationalized it as “as long as it’s just talking and nothing physical happens, its not cheating,” especially since she had no physical or romantic attraction to Rick – she just enjoyed the fawning attention.

My wife also went through a mental health crisis during all this, since my wife is bipolar and her medication lost much of its efficacy. She told me at the time (and I wish I had acted on it sooner) that she was disassociating at times and feeling like her actions were not her own. From there, what happened is covered in my other posts.

There was one big update, however, and it is unfortunately a horrible one: Rick effectively coerced my wife. She had previously admitted that Rick kissed her when I went to the restroom. That is not quite the whole story. I remember the night, as it was several days before I discovered the affair.

Rick had come over, and the three of us were drinking heavily and listening to music, and Rick was playing along to the songs on a guitar. Around 1:00 a.m., I decided to go to bed. My wife and Rick still wanted to hang, so I went up by myself. They were being too loud for me to sleep, however, so I decided to come back downstairs after 10 minutes or so.

Walking down the stairs, I remember hearing what I thought sounded kind of like kissing sounds, but by the time I could see them everything seemed normal, so I chalked it up to my ears playing tricks. In our heart to heart, however, my wife admitted that they made out that night and that my ears didn’t deceive me.

She doesn’t actually remember any of it – she was black-out drunk that night and barely coherent. When we finally called it, I had to carry her up the stairs to our bedroom, where I helped her throw up before tucking her in bed. She only learned what happened the next day, when Rick apparently called and told her that he enjoyed their make-out session.

She still feels intense shame for this, although I don’t fault her too much – she was incredibly drunk and in no state to consent to anything, and what Rick did to her was legally SA. For all I know, she may have thought she was kissing me (yes, she was that drunk).

I wish she had told me all this sooner, as she was a victim that night, but she was too ashamed and embarrassed (particularly because it crossed her own internal line of “as long as nothing physical happens it’s not cheating”) and so she instead made up the story of him kissing her while I went to the bathroom, which she admits was wrong.

Rick has thankfully fallen off the face of the earth, which is good, because I hate that man. I did run into him recently, and I (perhaps immaturely) told him that he was a pervert and a scourge. He stormed off, and I doubt I’ll see much of him in the future.

I also experience a great deal of schadenfreude in knowing that he’s gained a lot of weight – he was probably 300 lbs when my wife started helping him, he got down to about 250 lbs with her help, and he is now up to probably 400 lbs. Good for him, I say. Meanwhile, my wife and I are doing well, and the trauma of the last year has surprisingly brought us closer together.

She really is a fantastic person (notwithstanding everything that happened), she and has been a model wife and partner since I broke up the affair. So there is a happy ending, despite a ton of messed up stuff that has happened over the last 18 months.

The internet did not hold back.

According-Tap9874 wrote:

He was drunk, she was drunk, they both made out and yet she's a victim and he took advantage of her? Umm....well whatever helps you sleep at night I guess.

OP responded:

The difference was that he had been drinking but definitely still had his faculties. My wife was so drunk she couldn't walk. You're barely aware of your surroundings in that state. That feels very predatory, no?

According-Tap9874 responded:

In that case then, you went upstairs to sleep and left your wife alone with a man in a state so drunk she couldn't walk?

OP responded:

That's fair. I would not have left my wife in that state with most men - I just trusted Rick and figured she was safe, given that she was in our own house and with someone I thought was a stand-up guy.

I also don't think I realized just how drunk she was until I brought her upstairs - I had thought she was drunk, but not I can't walk drunk. But I definitely made a mistake that night - one I'll never make again.

Curds818 wrote:

You really need to stop calling this an emotional affair when it clearly became physical. If you want to stay with someone who disrespected you and your marriage, then fine, you do that. But stop acting like it wasn't as bad as it was. She cheated. And she's trickle truthing you, even a year later.

I wouldn't stay with someone capable of behaving so poorly and who you clearly can't trust because she's still admitting more and more lies, but if you want to wait until her next affair or for her to suddenly admit something else happened that, that's up to you.

[deleted] wrote:

Wow man, you put up with so much more than any normal person would have. I hope your wife realizes how amazing you are because I sure see a lot of trickle truthing from your wife in every post.

OP responded:

Oh she thankfully does. She's been an amazing spouse since this all happened - she realized that she almost blew up her life and is very lucky that I didn't leave her, and she's been trying to make it up to me. I effectively have unlimited brownie points at the moment.