'AITA for letting my wife name my son and not letting my family call him a 'Western' nickname?' UPDATED

"AITA for allowing my wife to pick my son's names and not letting my family call him a 'Westernised' nickname?"

We live in England, wife is South Asian and I am white British (late 20S F and M). We have young boy twins, just under 2 years old. Names are important and we don't mind who sees this so we're using exact first names but not surname.

I had no name preferences, am uninventive and have a boring 'British' name myself, think John James Jacob Smith (not really, but basically). With our kids, they both have my surname, 'Smith', and from day 1 I said I wanted her pick on first names and she chose lovely names from her culture that I fell in love with.

So our boys are Ramin Navroz Smith and Rustom Parvez Smith, which means 'joyous new year' and 'victorious hero' in its Parsi origins. We liked that they were similar ish without being the same. The boys will live in the UK so obviously we have no problem with either shortening their name or going by a nickname at school as long as its their choice.

Plus it's not likely they'll do it for racialised reasons: we live in very diverse London. Problem: boys are not identical, and like many mixed race siblings, they look a bit different. They have similar features but Ramin has dark hair and eyes like his mum and Rustom has light hair and eyes like me.

They're both ethnically ambiguous and very young if you're thinking in terms of "white passing" you would say Rustom will find it easier to "pass" while Ramin a bit harder. We don't micromanage our toddlers racial traits so haven't given much thought to it. Unfortunately, my family (except my parents) seem to have given this too much thought.

SIL started it by repeatedly commenting that Ramin looked like a Ramin but Rustom didn't look like a Rustom and we were just ??? but let it go. Then she and my brother start calling him 'Russell' as a nickname, get extended fam to do it to the point he starts answering to it and people use the nickname in captions or texts. We said no multiple times!

We put our foot DOWN and said only my parents could see either boy till they knock the Russell -it off. Cue flood of tears from SIL and blame from others, telling us it was just well meaning nicknaming, that her 3 yo daughter came up w it and that we're oversensitive. I feel we're going insane as other than my parents, everyone seems on their side and saying we're draconian?

We don't care if the boys want a nickname at any point but they're babies, and I just can't buy "it has nothing to do with race" when they're doing it to the blonde kid and not the "darker" one. I also can't buy that their child gave the name because of the above + WHAT 3 y/o comes up with "Russell"???

Our line = we do not want this weird difference to exist between the boys before they even comprehend race. We think it's damaging longterm to give one boy a "white name" just because he's blonde, especially as the two do actually look different. But maybe we are too close to it and SO many people keep telling us it's harmless/we're overthinking? Help!

Not long after posting, OP shared an update.

Edit: I get having a difference of opinion but I do think the 5 or 6 commenters calling me a "race traitor" for letting the boys get Parsi middle names/reducing the white population in London/intermarrying between cultures/giving the kids Parsi names while living in the UK, all need to get a grip and take a few deep breaths.

It is not a sign of a healthy and normal mind to get this angry over mixed race relationships, and I don't think my children are going to grow up hating the white race because I did not give them 'John' as a middle name.

A fun history lesson: Parsis, aka descendents of Zoroastrians expelled from the Middle East, are necessarily a globally dispersed ethnic group, due to said historical expulsion — they are concentrated in South Asia but exist all over the world. As such, there is no such thing as a 'Parsi homeland' I can send my children to just because Barry online thinks race mixing is wrong.

Also, reading this whole thing and your only takeaway being "damn these race traitors" may say more about your own unsatisfactory upbringing than my children checks notes not having the middle name John. Have a nice day, and I hope you can one day move a little closer to being well adjusted and not completely unhinged :)

The internet had a lot to say in response.

Euphoric_Sort_7578 wrote:

Russell isn't a nickname, it's a whole other name!! To me, a nickname for Rustom would be something like Ru or Rus, not Russell!!! That being said, if you aren't onboard with nicknames for your child, that's all that matters and your family need to used the child's actual name.

OP responded:

Yup, exactly! We wouldn't have minded if it was something like Rus and they had done it to both of them, eg. Ram and Rus for instance.

Yep, we'd not mind about nicknames the kids go by at all, as British schoolkids have a wide spectrum of those. And having gone through the UK school playground gauntlet, the kid is probably more likely to end up being called "Pissfingers" than Russell...and thank you!

aitathrowwtf wrote:

My account has my real name so I have created a throwaway for the sole purpose of making this possibly uncharitable comment: you both are NTA and sound like very good, conscious parents.

Your SIL is entirely TA and sounds frankly deranged. However, she must be a superhuman parent, considering she has a 3 year old, yet seems to have enough time left to sit around trying to implement some kind of toddler racial hierarchy.

PS: I'm from London and as you say, it is hugely multicultural, and Rustom is a very common Parsi name regardless. If I was a child growing up in Hackney, I would have probably begged to be called Rustom instead of Russell.

LovBonobos wrote:

NTA, I would also wonder what the SIL and family's relationship is to your wife. This is IMHO an affront to your wife and her culture. That they want the one that looks more like THEM to have a "western" name smacks of r-cism.

They need to apologize especially to your wife for such a huge cultural insult. And the SIL tears are just a passive aggressive form of b-llying and she should be called out for it. As to the rest of the family, those who don't respect your feelings on this you should go NC until they realize that they are the AH for picking on a little kid.

OP responded:

I think you may be on to something re: my wife. SIL not outwardly racist or even rude to my wife, but does make some weird comments. For eg. she had this big thing when we first got together where she kept making that "outstandingly beautiful ethnic girl with basic white man haha" joke, framed like a compliment to her. While it may have been amusing the first time, it got weird and we had to ask her to drop it.

_mmiggs_ wrote:

NTA.

How TF does your sister know what a "Rustom" or "Ramin" looks like?

Rustom / Rustem / Rostam is found as a name across a fairly wide section of the planet, and people carrying one of those name variants have all sorts of different appearances. Some of them look "white". 3-year-olds come up with "Russell" if and only if they have a school friend or know a TV/pop star with that name.

Yare_Daze wrote:

Make no mistake your boys are dealing with r-cist family members. You need to start considering severe time-outs or consequences for every infringement, and have your partner on your side prepared to go LC or NC if necessary. I am so enraged on your children's behalf as a mixed race child myself.

NTA. Please keep looking after your kids as you have. And definitely call out your family's behaviour for the r-cist BS it is.

Your boys names are beautiful.