'AITA for telling my aunt her child is a "spoiled brat and it's entirely her fault?' UPDATED 3X

"AITAH for telling my aunt her child is a "spoiled brat" and it's entirely her fault?"

My (23F) aunt (41F) that I will call Karen has been married to my uncle (43M) for a little over a year. She had a daughter (12F) that I will call Emily, from a previous relationship and my uncle always treated her like his own daughter, even though he only came into her life when she was 9, because she never really had a father figure growing up.

When their relationship got serious, my uncle introduced both of them to our family, and ever since they have been present at most gatherings and family holidays. I never liked Karen, because she was always very demanding and would always force people around her to do what she wanted.

She never had any respect for anyone, but that's another story. Just to give some examples: she would always show up late to events or just not come at all, and when I say late I mean like 45 minutes to an hour late, even when people told her it was important to be on time, and never apologized for it.

She always asked other people to do things for her, like go get something, go to the shop, or just anything that she didn't want to do, and never took no for an answer, and that's just some of it. She has said multiple times that she expects to be "treated like a princess."

My family always found her impolite and disrespectful, but we didn't really say anything because my uncle seemed happy with her, so good for him. The real problem however, was her daughter. I can't begin to explain all the disrespectful and entitled things that she has done, but I will try and list some of them. When she was first introduced to us, I was 20, and would normally sit at the adults' table.

She however decided that it was unfair that I got to sit with the adults and she didn't, so she demanded that either she could sit with the adults or I came back to the children's table. Just to remind you: she was 10 at the time. Instead of explaining to her that I was an adult and she was a child and therefore we did not sit at the same table, my aunt told me to go with the children.

When I said that I didn't want to, especially because children were between 7 and 14 and I was much older, she said that if I was so immature that I didn't want to switch tables, I didn't deserve to be at the adults' table.

Ever since then, she made sure that I was seated with children. Her daughter would always ask me to go play with her, even when I was doing something else or working, and when I said no she would throw tantrums.

Her mother always yelled at me for "making a child cry" and "not being a good cousin" and forced me to go play with her. But when I went to "play" with her, Emily would only ask me do to things for her, like go make her a snack, or dress her dolls for her, and would throw a tantrum if I didn't.

She would always steal my stuff, especially my makeup and clothes. When I told her not to, because 1. she didn't ask for permission, and 2. she was too young to use makeup, she once again threw fits and her mother forced me to "be generous". She ruined a lot of my stuff and when I got mad my aunt just said that she was "just a child." For some reason, she was always very jealous of me.

Everything I had and she wanted she demanded I gave it to her. When I got my bachelor's degree, my family threw a party to congratulate me, but she got angry that she didn't have all the attention, and a party for her, so my aunt threw the exact same party, at the same place, the next day. Every present I had she would ask her mom for, and eventually get.

She would make every event about her, even my birthdays. I tried to let it slide and be patient with her, and I try to tell myself that she was "just a child", but her behavior didn't seem to change as she grew up. If anything, she was becoming even more entitled. My last straw was two days ago. We were celebrating my birthday.

I was born at the beginning of May, but we waited until June to celebrate to make sure that we would have good weather, as we had planned to have a birthday party in my grandparents' garden. As soon as she arrived - which was approximately 1 hour late - Emily starting complaining that we were celebrating my birthday 1 month after the real one.

She claimed that if we were doing that, we could celebrate her birthday too, since she didn't really have one because it's close to Christmas. To clarify, her birthday is November 29th, which is still a month before Christmas, and her mother always made a point to throw her a real party and not just group it together with Christmas.

Karen would always make a very big deal of it and we always bought her very nice gifts. But she conveniently forgot about that and complained for about 10 minutes before her mother gave in and asked my grandmother to go buy another cake and candles for Emily, as we would also be celebrating her birthday.

Emily then complained that it wouldn't be a real birthday because she had no gifts, but Karen said that people had time to go buy her something, and that if there weren't any gifts for her we could just share mine, as I had plenty.

I was furious. I went into my grandmother's house and asked if she had any cardboard boxes that I could use. I took one and pretended to wrap it as a gift. Inside I only put one thing: a note saying "Congratulations on being such a spoiled brat! But don't worry, it's not your fault, your entitled mother raised you that way! Hope you enjoy your present!!"

Yes it is immature, but I just had enough. She had ruined all of the most important moments of my life for the past 3 years and I was so tired of it. When people sang happy birthday to me, Emily and Karen made sure to sing "Happy Birthday dear Emily" instead of my name, loudly enough to cover all of the other people there.

I was so angry, but I thought she wasn't going to be smiling that way for long. I was right. As soon as she opened my present she started screaming and throwing a tantrum. When she saw what I had written, her mother started yelling at me, but I was just smiling at her the whole time. She called me many names and immediately left with Emily.

My family members did not really react as no one really liked Karen or Emily. However, I have received plenty of texts from my aunt and uncle, and even some from other members of my family saying that I was a huge a-hole for ruining "a little girl's birthday". I did not yet reply, because I don't really regret what I did, but I keep thinking that maybe I went too far. AITAH?

The internet had plenty to say in response.

One-Chipmunk3386 wrote:

SMH. She's literally a Karen in the wild. NTA but that insufferable woman and her spawn sure are.

OP responded:

Thanks for your reply!

She surely is...good thing is, now that they both hate me I probably won't have to see them ever again!

Rhubarbalicious wrote:

So she bosses you around and your PARENTS let her? I think you need to have a serious talk with them. She should never have been so bold as to order a 20 yr old to sit with the children, and then YOU OBEYED HER? NTA for what you did, but YTA for ever allowing it to get that way.

OP responded:

I agree, but the thing is, my uncle for some reason really loves Karen, and every time that someone in our family has made a comment about her being rude or disrespectful she got mad at him which just makes all of us very sad for him.

The reason why my parents and I don't say anything, or at least in front of Karen is to avoid creating problems for my uncle. Also, most of the things I said happened while my parents weren't there to hear it and I didn't necessarily tell them everything that Karen and Emily did or say because I did not want to create more drama in the family.

greenflamingochad wrote:

I don't understand how Karen was able to make you do any of these things. You are an adult, she isn't your parent, and you don't live together. Why not just exclude your uncle's whole family from your birthday party? You don’t mention your parents at all in this.

OP responded:

Yeah the reason why my parents aren't mentioned is because most of the time when things like that happened they weren't there and I didn't always tell them because I didn't want to create any drama. While I am technically an adult, in the family I am still a child if that makes sense. Karen is the generation above me so in a way she has that authority.

But the main reason why I complied most of the time is because otherwise she would start fights with my uncle about how his family treated her and her child and I didn't want him to have problems as he is normally very sweet and already has to endure enough living with the both of them.

CinnamonBlue wrote:

How did she “force” people to obey her commands? How does your family function without a single spine among you?

Stop inviting them to any event. Fixed. Simple.

OP responded:

Well my uncle and my dad are very close and they are both very close to their parents. If we stopped inviting them my grandparents would be really sad because no matter how annoying his wife is, he is still their son. Plus he is normally a very nice and sweet guy.

She didn't really force people to obey because she wouldn't dare to do that with some people. For example she knew that some of my dads cousins would never do what she asked them to do so she didn't ask them anything. But because I am younger than her and in her eyes not an adult she thinks that she has some authority on me.

And I don't really like to cause problems especially within my family which is why I would obey. Plus she gets into fights with my uncle when things don't go as she wants because she says that his family is treating her badly, and because I don't want him to get into any trouble I usually just take a deep breath and do whatever she asks.

crystallz2000 wrote:

NTA. But, OP, you may want to try gray rocking them. Just don't engage. Don't sit at the kids table. Don't respond when they talk to you accept, "no," or "yes." Don't play with her. Be completely done with them.

The next day, OP shared an update.

First of all I would like to thank everyone that commented and gave me their opinion on my previous post! I just got a call from my dad and he told me multiple things, so I'm gonna try and tell you all of them before I forget.

First, he told me that my uncle called him right before he called me, and told him that he understood where I was coming from and wasn't blaming me for saying something, but at the same time he said that I should've known better than to humiliate Emily in front of everyone and ruin what should've been a great moment for her.

My dad told him that Emily had been constantly harassing me for years, and that she humiliated herself by trying to steal someone's birthday from them. He also told him that it shouldn't have been a "great moment for her", because it shouldn't have been a moment for her at all.

My uncle seemed to understand but my dad told me that he thought that my uncle couldn't say he agreed with me because otherwise Karen would get mad at him. My uncle also said that it made him sad to have these sorts of conflicts in our family because he didn't want to not be able to see my dad or my grandparents and he just wanted his family to be happy.

My dad replied that he should be telling that to his wife because we had always been a happy family with no drama until she came along. My uncle told my dad to ask me to apologize to Karen and Emily so that we can put that in the past and my dad told him that he would talk to me but would understand if I didn't want to apologize and would have my back.

I told my dad that I wouldn't apologize and that I wanted a real apology from Karen and Emily for how they treated me for years, and that until then I would ignore them and they wouldn't be invited to any event related to me.

My dad also told my uncle that he should really divorce Karen because she treated him and everyone else miserably and that he didn't even understand why he was with her but my uncle said that it was complicated and my dad didn't tell me much about that.

According to my uncle, more and more family members have started to send messages to Karen to tell her that her behavior was unacceptable and to basically say everything they had kept to themselves for years. My uncle sort of blames me for it because he says that I started a "hate train" against Karen, but I told my dad that in my opinion she started that herself.

Anyway he said that it was really bad because even family members who weren't at my birthday were sending her texts and although I feel like that might be going a little too far, I understand because no one had said anything for the past 3 years but at some point it had to come out.

In the end my uncle asked my dad to ask me to come to his house today or tomorrow to talk to Karen and Emily and try to solve the problem. My dad told me that I didn't have to go if I didn't want to. I told him that I wouldn't go alone because I was tired of being bullied by Karen and Emily but that I would maybe like to go if my parents came with me. I don't really know if I should.

I don't think that they will miraculously realize that they had been a-holes for years, but at the same time I have a lot more things to say, and I also tell myself that even if Karen will never change maybe there is hope that Emily unlearns that behavior and becomes a decent adult.

I also feel like I have to try and make things better because I feel like everyone sending texts to Karen is maybe going a little bit too far and I would like for it to get better. I really don't know. Should I go?

The comments kept coming.

Beneficial_Test_5917 wrote:

To continue the train analogy, you started it rolling, but Karen had loaded all its cars. :)

OP responded:

Yeah! And I feel like she had been loading them for a loooong time so it shouldn't come as such a surprise for her, but still I can't help but feel bad...

Marv115 wrote:

Not to their house for sure, maybe meet at a public place with your parents, because let me tell you there is not gonna be an apology in that encounter, she's gonna demand the apology and play victim for "turning the family" against her. I would also record the chat if it happens.

OP responded:

Yeah I agree which is why I didn't want to go alone, and going somewhere public might be a good idea but I'm just scared she's going to make a scene and that would make me very embarrassed so I don't really know.

ManufacturerNo6216 wrote:

NTA you don't own them anything. They are bullies and ah. You don't need to Go over and be bullied again. Just book yourself a spa day and let the garbage train keep rollin into this dumpster

This audacity of your Uncle even to ask. Jeez ah.

OP responded:

I hadn't thought about it, but now that you mention it a spa day seems really nice!!

Beck2010 wrote:

If you are hell bent on going, take your dad with you. Because otherwise it’ll be 3 on 1, and it seems your uncle is completely blind with regard to his wife and stepdaughter.

Prep a speech to be read aloud:

“I am not here to apologize. While what I did may be considered cruel or mean, it was simply a reaction to years of a 9 to 12 year old child spoiled to the point of internal and external rot. I am done being made to share with or play with or give in to the demands of a literal child and her spoiled mother.

“Consider the actions over the years (list what is in your OP) and how I and others have chosen to look the other way or be the bigger person. It ends now.

“Emily, you’re getting older and so far you’ve not experienced consequences. You’ve now experienced a consequence to your behavior that has been instilled by your mother. I hope you learn that your behaviors do not impress anyone.

In fact, they drive people away. You will have a lonely life should you continue down this path.

“Uncle, stop contacting my dad about me. I am an adult and make my own choices. You may be largely blind to your wife and stepdaughter’s behaviors, but no one else is. I did not “start this train”, I only decided to no longer let it be driven without a conductor.”

OP responded:

That's a really great idea! No matter what I'm not going alone and yeah I think my dad is going to come with me. I have started to write a few things that I really really want to tell them, but your speech is really great! I will try to do something like that, or at least just some bullet points so that I don't forget anything. Thanks!

Magdovus wrote:

No, ask your uncle to come to you. If you go there, you're on their territory and they'll try to bully you into acquiesce.

Whichever happens, start audio recording before you meet them. Karen is going to try some BS.

OP responded:

Yeah but I don't really want them to be in my house, especially since they're gonna bring Emily and every time she comes over she tries to leave with some of my stuff. But yeah I will totally try to record, and my dad promised me that he would come with me and we could leave at any point if I felt uncomfortable.

OP shared another update a day later.

Sooo I just got back from seeing Karen, Emily and my uncle, but before I tell you how it went here are some things I would like to clarify.

A lot of you told me not to go on my last update, because it wouldn't change anything and they would just ask me to apologize, but even if it wasn't going to change anything or make them realize how bad their behavior was, at least I could get it off my chest and just stop thinking about it and move on with my life knowing I said everything I had to say.

Also, I had said that I would only go if my dad came with me, if we met in a park instead of their house, if they let me speak without interrupting me, and if they didn't expect an apology from me.

I had also clarified that I would leave as soon as one of these conditions wasn't respected, or that I felt uncomfortable. To reply to some of the comments on my last post, I don't blame anyone that hadn't spoken up before and I don't blame myself for not reacting sooner either.

I simply wanted to maintain the peace within my family, mainly for my grandparent's sake because family is very important to them and their family fighting is truly heartbreaking for them. I know that I could've and maybe should've said something earlier, but I don't really regret not doing so. Anyway moving on to the interesting part. So I met them about 1 hour ago in a park, and here's how it went.

I had prepared a list of things that I wanted to say, which was basically a list of every time Karen or Emily had behaved like entitled brats so I told them that and explained in details how disrespectful it was. I managed to keep my calm throughout the entire thing which I am pretty proud of and they all had the decency to let me finish without interrupting so that was a good start.

After I had finished, Karen started saying that I was basically "complaining for no reason" because some of the things that I had listed were pretty minor and not very important, but since I wanted to tell them EVERYTHING that had bothered me I told them about some small and some big problems.

Karen then pretended like she only heard me talk about the smaller issues such as asking me to play with my cousin, Emily wanting to try on my makeup, or some of the small comments they had made about me.

I then told her that she knew very well that wasn't the center of the problem, and that if everyone had the same problems with her then maybe we weren't all just "very sensitive", and maybe she was actually the problem.

She didn't like that and just said that this family didn't know how to treat newcomers to which I didn't reply. At that point my uncle came in and said something like "you asked for explanations and you got explanations, if you didn't want her to tell you what the problem asked why did you insist on speaking with her" to Karen.

I think she was too shocked to reply and just said "That's it we're leaving". Before they left, Emily turned to me and said "I'm sorry I ruined your stuff and your birthday", and then left with her mother.

Considering the fact that I didn't have much hope and my expectations for this conversation weren't very high I'd say that it went better than I expected. I don't really know if Emily's apology was sincere but it felt like it, especially since her mother didn't see the problem so I know she wasn't asked to apologize.

Karen didn't realize the problem but I didn't expect her to so that's okay. And I'm happy that my uncle said something to Karen even though that means that he's going to get in trouble. My dad told me that I did well and that now it was over and we could all move on. So yeah here's the update you were waiting for!

The internet had OP's back.

GlamourrQueen wrote:

Girl, you handled it like a pro! Going in with your conditions and sticking to them showed you weren't messing around.

SugarandSpicei wrote:

You stood your ground, voiced your concerns, and upheld your boundaries—well done! Emily apologized, your uncle supported you, and now you can move forward knowing you spoke your truth.

Ambitious-Border-906 wrote:

No real reason for Emily’s apology other than she felt it was right: More likely genuine than not.

Still very definitely NTA!

BaddibutSaddi wrote:

I think Emily's apology was sincere. I think she genuinely didn't know she was being an entitled brat because no one ever told her, her mom cosigned the behavior but I think hearing you lay it all out like that made her realize how her actions were affecting others. It seems like Emily see's the error of her ways but Karen does not.

MilnbadBook wrote:

Fantastic update. Very mature, well thought out and respectful- very important when it’s family and loved ones. I’m glad you were able to get everything off your chest, that you had support and you’re able to move forward. (And good job Uncle!)

The next day, OP shared another update.

I never thought I would be writing another update, but here we are. In my last post I mentioned that my uncle told Karen that if she didn't want explanations she shouldn't have come, and I said that he was going to get in trouble at home for saying that. Well I was right. About an hour ago my uncle showed up to our house with a suitcase asking my dad if he could sleep at our house.

We immediately understood that he had gotten into a fight with Karen. After we told him to come in he told us what happened and I'm going to try and tell you what I remember. When they got home after I talked to them, Karen gave my uncle the silent treatment and ignored him for the rest of the day.

That doesn't really surprise me honestly, considering how manipulative she is, she knew exactly how to make him feel bad and apologize. However my uncle didn't want to apologize so he just accepted his "punishment." All hell broke loose this afternoon, when he overheard Karen telling Emily that it perfectly okay for her to behave like she did and to demand things from other people.

She was basically telling her that it just made her a strong, powerful and determined woman, and that people got angry because they were scared of that and didn't want her to have power. My uncle just had enough and intervened to say that being disrespectful wasn't being powerful and that people who were truly powerful knew how to get what they wanted while respecting others.

Karen apparently got very mad and started yelling at him for "continuously defending his brat of a niece" or something like that. My uncle then told her that everything that I had said to her were facts, and things she had really done, and that if that made her uncomfortable and angry then she should change her behavior and realize she was the problem.

She continued to yell and him so he went for a drive because he was tired of her screaming and when he came back she had locked him outside and put a suitcase with some of his stuff in front of the door. So he came to our house. She is currently not replying to him, and he is thinking about contacting a divorce attorney, which he will try to do tomorrow.

My grandparents have also tried to call Karen but she doesn't reply to anyone. I feel kind of bad that I created all of this, but at the same time it finally made him realize what a terrible person she is, so good for him. What makes me the saddest is that, if they divorce, Emily will be left with only her mother to teach her right and wrong and is probably going to end up like her.

It makes me sad because I felt like she was starting to realize how disrespectful her behavior had been and now I'm not sure she will ever change. But anyways, it seems like we are finally getting rid of Karen, so today is a great day for our family!

The comments kept coming.

JeffinVancouver wrote:

I would be interested to know how she reasons that her behaviour "made her a strong, powerful and determined woman" while yours made you a brat?

OP responded:

Well I think that it's basically "I know what I want and I'm gonna get it and everyone standing in my way is an AH who just hates powerful women". So maybe confronted to someone behaving exactly the same way she does she would think that they are a brat too? Do Karens also attack other Karens?

seanthebean24 wrote:

Honestly your uncle should go back to the house, if it is a marital asset she doesn’t have the right to just kick him out of his own home. If it were me, I’d wait till she was out for the day and get back in and tell her I’m not leaving. If it is just her house she would still have to legally evict him.

I wouldn’t trust that she wouldn’t destroy the rest of my things while I was out of the house. Karen sounds like someone who is unable to take accountability for her actions and the things she is telling her daughter will get her in trouble later in life. Hopefully they divorce and none of you have to deal with or see her again.

OP responded:

Yeah but the fact that she locked him out when she didn't have a right to do so could play in his favor in case of a divorce, to counter Karen's claims. Also, he said that it wasn't worth his energy and that hopefully she will get what she deserves in court. I honestly understand because after years of living with her I don't know if I'd have any energy to fight anymore either.

BathAcceptable1812 wrote:

She can’t lock him out. That is against the law.
Besides that, you did a good thing. Keep it up!

OP responded:

Absolutely, so he's going to tell his attorney that and hopefully that helps him in the divorce...

aquavenatus wrote:

You didn’t cause your uncle’s marriage to end (I’m sorry, but it’s over)! Your aunt is a narcissist and she’s teaching her daughter to be just as entitled as her! Unfortunately, Karen might be doing this so her daughter only has her to rely on (long-term planned parenting indeed).

Who owns the house? If the house is under your uncle’s name, then he can start the process for legal eviction! You were the only one who called out Karen and that’s why she can’t stand you. I hope your uncle has a speedy divorce.

OP responded:

That's true, and even if I did cause his divorce, I believe that's a good thing. I'm just scared my uncle or Emily might consider me responsible for it and be mad at me but I mean I feel like that's not the biggest issue anyway.