'AITA for not wanting to walk her down the aisle or lie in a speech?' UPDATED 2X

"AITA for not wanting to walk her down the aisle or lie in a speech?"

I (41M) have two kids with my ex wife, (42F) a son John(22) and daughter Sally (20), I'm remarried to my wife (28). I'm very close with my kids, my son is engaged to Abbie, she seems nice but has been a bit pushy trying to create relationships with me and my wife, though she's also awkward with her.

Abbie isn't close to her family, she told us many stories why and while some of her complaints don't seem awful, it's not my place to judge and I didn't live it so I can't know anyway.

We've tried to be welcoming but Abbie has forced her way into some family traditions where she wouldn't have been invited, and some where no one outside of specific family would have.

She has been calling Sally "sis" since they were only dating a few months, has an odd sister/mother-in-law thing she does with my wife, and the one I'm not a fan of, wants me to be like father to her. Not because we've clicked or anything. We are very different people, not saying that in a bad way, just saying it's not based on how we get along or anything.

My kids and I have a tradition when they come over that we have a private catch-up in my office/study before they leave, which is now even more important to them because while they both get along well with my wife they don't want to have personal conversations around her yet.

Abbie asked if we could talk, and after I explained the tradition John later asked that I do it, saying she'd never had a caring conversation with her dad.

We compromised that I didn't include her in the tradition but do join the two of them for coffee and let her talk. Then she started calling me dad, they werent even engaged yet...

John pulled me aside and begged me to give her that, laid this whole thing on me about me always being the dad she always wanted right in front of her and she just wanted that, told me she cried watching me and Sally together (she still gives me random hugs, I'm a lucky dad).

I didn't like it but I do feel bad so fine I gave her that. She wants me to walk her down the aisle and the father/daughter dance. I don't want to walk her down, and I walk with a cane so dancing is hard. At my own wedding I only danced twice. John is begging for me to do one, preferably the aisle.

They came over Sunday, John and I were talking, I thought to address it, when Ab walked in without knocking, asking if he'd told me yet. I asked what, John said she wanted me to say something about having a second daughter now in my speech and how I loved her. I just looked at him.

She asked if I'd do the walk and dance for Sally, I said of course. She yelled she's my daughter too and I said it will never be the same, Sally is my actual daughter. I tried to explain I'd talk about her being a happy addition to the family and I love how happy she makes Jack, which i thought was a good compromise, but she started crying.

John apologized and they left, but he called me when they were home nearly begging me to. AITA because I won't lie and say I love her or she's my daughter?

Let's take a look at some top comments and responses from OP:

FuzzyMom2005:

NTA. You have your boundaries. Abbie sounds like she's developed this fantasy involving you and your family. That can't be healthy.

And yelling at you? "You WILL tell people you love me! You WILL tell people I'm your second daughter! You WILL have a good time at my wedding!"

OP replied:

John told me she really wants to be part of the family, but she started so quickly I wonder how much is us vs the idea of us. I've been told she immediately was obsessed with the relationship my kids and I have. The yelling...I was more concerned for John than upset, honestly. She seemed...not ok, right then.

Commenter:

Yeah, this doesn’t sound like it’s about you or Sally as actual people. It’s about Abby’s fantasy of having a family. It makes me wonder how much she really even knows you or Sally.

There’s nothing wrong with her wanting a family, but she’s going about it wrong. Relationships grow and develop over time, you don’t just claim someone as family and have an instant relationship with them. She could definitely benefit from therapy.

OP replied:

She knows Sally a bit now, with me she learns surface level things and approaches me, but when I try to engage she immediately acts like we're so close and switches subjects to something related to how much closer we should be. John says it's nerves but it doesn't seem like it.

charmedphoenix39:

NTA. You have to keep correcting her. She pushed this far with the aisle/speech because you gave them an inch with the Dad, etc. You need to put your foot down with your son and her.

If this continues, someone in the family will get fed up and might explode on them and it won’t be pretty. What if that confrontation comes at the wedding? This needs to be sorted now before the relationship and interactions continue. Otherwise you might need to consider lowering the amount of contact you have with your son and his wife.

OP replied:

That's partly why I'm upset, I have tried compromising because I want to help my son but at some point understanding has to go both ways. I understand she wants family, and I know she's partly jealous because I like my daughter's girlfriend more, but we're in the same field and she let it happen naturally. I feel like it's all give and no take.

Update 1 ( a month later):

I had planned on writing this sooner but life got in the way in a couple of really good ways, but people were helpful and asked for updates, and I have a surprise free day, so here it goes:

Mother's Day my kids and their partners go to visit my ex wife. So it turns out my ex wife and Abbie are a lot closer than I realized. She calls her mom, which is part of where this comes from. Also apparently my ex has been egging it on.

On mother's day they were talking about the wedding and I guess whenever Abbie referred to me it was as dad. My son apparently told her let it go, which led to yelling.

Abbie about deserving to be my daughter, ex telling her that she's right, son telling her that I am trying and she should be realistic about things, Sally telling her I only had one daughter - which was apparently a response to Abbie saying to her that as my "daughters" they should be united. according to my son Abbi was crying,

according to Sally she was crying ang yelling and kicked something before going to her room, and Sally told me she went off on her mom, but will not elaborate so I don't know what was actually said. But knowing Sally - whoo boy.

Around 2am I got a text from Sally's partner's phone saying "Abbie really is great, she hasn't been perfect but you should give her a chance and you will learn to love her." I saw it when I woke up I tried to text her back but was blocked, so I called Sally but they were driving.

They stopped by my place later that day because I am on the way and my daughter prefers my liquor and cooking and they told me about the night before.

At the end I asked to speak to her partner alone, I asked if I had done something to upset her. She was confused and I told her I was blocked. She said I wasn't but checked her phone and I was, and I said it was after her message and she asked what message. I showed her, it was not on her phone anymore. At that point we brought in Sally and caught her up, neither of them were happy.

A couple of days later John and Abbie dropped by unannounced; not something we really do in this family but ok fine, I had mad salmon, does not take long to cook. I cook 2 more, wife serves while I make drinks. The entire night was Abbie trying to bring up the wedding, John trying to change the subject, Abbie not allowing that.

We talk logistics because I am helping them get some good deals through some professional contacts I have when finally she just says "so I was talking to mom, she said that you can walk me down the aisle and she'll do the dance, or you can dance and she'll walk, it's your call but you need to choose soon."

I reiterated that I could not dance (she tried arguing that I had danced a little at my wedding but I made it clear that is different) and did not feel comfortable walking her. She got upset and said "mom loves me why can't you?"

I felt bad but couldn't lie, I pointed out that she had John who loved her, my exwife, friends, she had people who love her. She said "but other than (ex-wife) those aren't my parents" I said "neither am I." She was very emotional so my wife and I gave them a few minutes.

My son and I were alone later, he looked exhausted. He said the problem was that after Mother's day Abbie had called Sally and kept saying they are both my daughters, that I did not get to be close with one but not both, and that it was them against me - but at that one Sally cried havoc and let slip the dogs of war.

Things were said. Grievances were aired. John had to hang up before it got worse, but I guess Abbie was shaken but there was a new problem; Abbie had decided in her head that I did not mean what I have been saying and was just doing it for Sally. He told me he would handle it.

Ron Howard: He did not. So now I get text messages from Abbie every couple of days acting like we have a secret relationship Sally doesn't know about, she even called herself my secret daughter and lol'ed.

She invited my wife to lunch saying "2 out of 3 of his girl's" going out. She has even started using the pressure of showing up at events like a recent barbecue to play a certain image. She hugs me more and holds it, wants to do pictures with just me or my wife and I but always a few with just me to post with captions I do not like.

My wife is getting especially annoyed because of how she is with her (I guess Abbie surprised her with father's day plans for me that had to be shut down, as it is she still inserted herself into the day) but she has a soft spot for her and when Abbie gets emotional she caves; my wife is a sweetheart.

I asked him if he is upset with me and he said no, he just wished it was different. He said we're good, but he's worried he and Sally aren't, which is when I took the advice of some people and suggested pre marital counseling, he said he would talk about it. Abbie is insisting Sally go to her fitting.

That shop should pay-per-view that potential royal rumble because Sally is not holding her feelings back anymore. I told him Sally loves him and I'll talk to her, but for now it is stressful all around.

Abbie driving my wife crazy with her ideas for what my "girls" should be doing, driving me crazy with dad-daughter content, drove sally to the edge, and oh yeah, last night sent me an email with 3 styles of father-daughter dances and song options, so i'm not feeling any more respected or heard than before.

The six of us have barely been in the same room in order to let things calm down since father's day, which was great until it was a shit show. Sorry this is so long, with all the craziness this is still the abridged version. We are supposed to meet Friday, Sally's partner and I have a bet going about how bad it will go.

So onward and upward, I hope you fathers had a less dramatic day than I did, and by any chance does anyone know exactly how bad of a crime I need to commit to enter witness protection? Just curious.

Relevant comments from after the update:

InstructionTop4805:

NTA. But Abbie needs serious mental health help. This is beyond a little needy to down right pathological. What's going to happen when she finally realizes she is not going to get her way? Someone's going to get hurt. Your daughter and her partner need to step back and not engage at all, and you and your wife should attempt to do the same.

Tell your son you love him and will do your best to support him, but until Abbie gets help you can not allow her to be around you and your wife. I wouldn't be surprised if Abbie has a history of this type of behavior with others in her past.

OP replied:

I do not know her enough to know about her history, but this does worry me. Especially since my wife and I recently got some good news that has me feeling especially protective of her. My wife has a hard time with the idea of cutting contact since they get together occasionally, I pointed out she needs to take care of herself plus Abbie has my ex wife as a mother figure now, so she should be off the hook.

ProfPlumDidIt:

I can't believe your son is dumb enough to still want to marry this walking red flag.

At this point you need to have a talk with your son, tell him that his fiancée is making you, your wife, and his sister extremely uncomfortable, and that you have serious concerns about her emotional stability because of her inability to accept boundaries and being told "no."

I would also tell him that, if she doesn't back off asap, you will make your boundaries physical and not attend events she's at or invite her to your events.

Personally, I'd tell my son I won't attend the wedding because I can't support him marrying someone so toxic but that my door is open to help him escape her once he's ready. I know not everyone could or would do that, but I would if it was one of my kids.

And witness protection is for witnesses of big crimes, not really those who commit them. You'd be better off just faking your death and running lol

OP replied:

The shame is we used to sort of like her, my daughter, my wife, and myself. Early on she was interesting (diverse interests, she has travelled a lot for her age) she and I even have overlap in musical taste.

The problem was when she decided she wanted this her personality changed and she started getting pushy, changing subjects to what she wanted if they were subjects she liked, it was like everything was put on hold until we acquiesced, which we haven't, so it has not gone on.

You make a good point about witness protection, plus I have been meaning to take up location tracker-free boating and scuba diving in sharky waters...

Professional-Fact157:

Did you tell your son about the fake message from Sally's partner and the blocking? I don't know that you ever confirmed that Abbie did it, but that is another level of crazy from just inserting herself into your life.

OP replied:

I do not think confirmation is possible, but her phone was where Abbie would have been able to get it according to Sally. Sally asked to be the one to tell him, this is crazy but with everything going on, job stuff (great news) family stuff (best news) wedding stuff (I try to watch my drinking!) and the family exploding a bit at father's day, I honestly forgot to ask her what happened.

I have to call her later, it's funny until you sit down and write everything out you don't realize how much there is, it just feels like one thing after another.

Agoraphobe961:

NTA. You mention in another comment your wife is pregnant, be prepared for Abbie to go into overdrive especially if it’s another girl. Her level of obsession is very concerning.

If you can’t convince your wife to step back now, give it about 5-6 months when Abbie has taken over the baby shower, picked out the nursery, posted the ultrasounds online, insists on being in the delivery room, and gives your wife a full belly grope every 3.8 minutes during visits. Revisit the conversation then.

OP replied:

My daughter said the same thing about the baby coming. Your second paragraph sounds like hell, thankfully my wife has a close circle of friends for those things but I am sure you are right that Abbie will tryo to insert herself in our pregnancy journey like she did my father's day.

Update 2:

I have gotten requests for updates on my situation, and as I enjoy a refreshing mojito and my wife her nojito, life feels good and the perfect time to amuse the world with my pain and familial drama!

Plus a cousin of mine who apparently reads these and knows my situation gave me the convincing argument of "dude, you can't keep people hanging" and how can I argue with that airtight argument. I apologize for how long this is, a lot has happened.

My wife's pregnancy is going well, keeping her as stress-free and pampered as possible has been my focus. It is such a different experience this time, both because of how much more involved I can be and how much better a relationship I have with my wife than I had with my ex.

My daughter Sally has been great, even her partner has been great, helping with the nursery or driving her around when I can't. My wife doesn't know because it is a surprise, but my son has been building a crib for the baby, modeled after the one I built for him and his sister, to show my wife his support.

My son is a good man, and he is still in there, he just has a soft spot for Abbie. Which I guess gets us to the part of the movie where Godzilla shows up and starts busting up buildings...

So I called a family meeting with my kids to talk about the situation. Told John his sister was only doing wedding activities she wanted to and that the guilting requests needed to stop, that this was hurting his relationship with his sister.

Sally was happy I said it so she did not have to yet again. I told him if he did not stop her from messaging me I would block her with a bluntly honest explanation why. We got a lot out, John seemed to understand but then a few days later they insisted on coming to talk. Sally and I decided we would get everything out.

So all of us ate at our place, Abbie started in immediately about baby shower stuff and I told that is the kind of thing we wanted to talk about. I told her that I understood she has been trying to fill a hole that she has, that she thought she was getting a father, a second mother (she calls my ex-wife mom apparently) and a sister. I told her it was still possible but that she needed to start listening to us.

I told her that for the sake of family we would give her a fresh start, if she agreed that moving forward she would respect our boundaries. My daughter did not love this idea but loves her brother and was willing to try.

Abbie tried to say that since we were starting over we could define what the relationship would be and just be family, we told her we were not ready for that, that it needs to happen organically. She got mad that I am closer with my daughter's partner, which is true but we just get along, and that she deserved it for trying so hard. My daughter said something about trying things we actually want.

She ran to our bathroom, he ran after her. After a while I checked on him, I could hear her repeating "this is not what I wanted." My wife, daughter, and her partner went out to the patio to give them privacy and salvage the night, after a bit I got a text saying they had just left.

I checked in with him the next day and he said they talked more at home and she understood. For a couple of weeks things were good. The texts stopped except the occasional wedding question, since it was getting closer.

She stopped pushing herself on my wife and Sally, and we thought was involving us in less in wedding planning out of respect, since as it was they only got the venue at the rate they did because of my professional connections and they know I was willing to help but not interested in helping plan, even if I am good at event-planning.

But then I got a call from the venue telling me the card I used had been declined. Now this is a specific card I use for big purchases because of the miles so I knew it had a high limit.

That was how I learned that they had changed dates by two months despite being informed I would still be out much of the money because it was too close to the date. I was furious, I mean I have been lucky in life financially but I am not blow-off deposits like nothing wealthy. Called my son, said he needed to get his ass to the house, just him. They both came.

When they arrived I opened the door, she actually started with, "Dad!" I think I just replied "you have got to be f'n kidding me" and walked toward the table. Abbie had the nerve to ask where dinner was, my response was not polite as I made it clear that was not why they were here.

I hoped my son would not lie to me so I asked what was going on with the venue. She started going into wedding details but my son interrupted to tell me they postponed because my ex-wife was unavailable because of a surgery and he had...

not told me because he was putting money together to pay the lost money himself, and he had just reached out to guests to let them know. And that is when Abbie's mouth opened..."we have extra time to work on our dance..."

Now during this time my wife came home, and i was walking her toward the bedroom when Abbie said that. My pregnant wife with me I said, calmly, "I have different feelings about that and will elaborate further shortly" or something like that.

Then I laid my wife down and got her water, turned on her symphonic covers of popular songs and walked back to the table and said something like "You are out of your f'n mind have you even been listening?!" I made it clear I was done with this nonsense, we all were, and kind of lost it asking she did not hear us last time because her head was up her ass.

She was stunned silent (what a beautiful sound) and looked at me while I, admittedly with little filter, explained what Sally and I thought of our time with her and her attempts to force us to love her without even getting to know us. She started crying and stood up and shouted "then what was this even for?!"

John asked what she meant, if she meant them and he started to freak out. She was frantic and said she meant delaying the wedding. Because, and I'm pouring another drink to write this, it was a ploy!

My ex-wife and her decided if I HAD MORE TIME I would come around. Apparently my ex told her not to worry about the money because "I am loaded." She has always been bitter I make so much more than I did when we were married, as if that is out of spite rather than my career arc. I think she did that on purpose, frankly.

But she not only told me that lie, she and my ex told John as well. He was distraught. Repeating "you lied to me" as she tried to spin it but he was letting it out about how much he has defended her and covered for her and she lied to him too.

She was defensive and blamed my ex for telling her things and me for being stubborn, she yelled "why can't I just f'n call him dad" and, finally, after so long, I heard John respond "because he is not your f'n dad!"

She started crying and something about his being the one that told she could call me that and he said he told her she might be able to eventually but he had told her again and again to slow down.

She started sobbing and went to sit on her chair but missed and fell on the floor. Appreciating physical humor to break the tension I admittedly chuckled and hid my mouth behind my drink, this all led to a lot of sobbing. I said I needed to check on my wife and as I walked out she was repeating "I just want him to be my dad too."

I came out and he was walking her to the door and apologized, I said not too, they left. He came over a few days later and said they had a long talk at home, he even asked her if she would have dated him if there was never a chance of being in the family.

He believed her when she said yes but she admitted I was a big draw as well. I was the kind of dad she always wanted, my relationship with Sally is what she always wanted, and the way she said it gave John doubts that she loves him for him.

I talked about marriage counseling, how his mother and I tried it and, while it did not save us, it provided clarity and an impartial voice. I pointed out they both like coming to me, but I cannot be impartial and if they are trying then they need to do it for real.

Abbie texted asking if I was the one who suggested therapy, I responded with "does it matter if John wants to?" She asked why it is so bad she wants to know what I think and I just said john is the man whose opinion should matter most to her.

They fought due to the text, she agreed to the counseling and the wedding has been postponed!! I may have done a dance. So they are in counseling, he said she struggles but I obviously do not know details. She is pressing for me and Sally to go to a session with her, Sally told her she did not want to hear Sally unfiltered, and I am not interested.

Abbie has been leaving Sally alone, she stopped texting me except for the occasional general question which include some attempt to go deeper. My wife still occasionally spends time with her because she is very into her pregnancy, more so than I like but it is my wife's call. So that is where we are, sorry it was so long but alcohol makes for a poor editor.

Comments from the second update:

OOP on how Abbie is going to deal with the credit card she ran up:

We have already talked payment plan, John insists he is not helping her and I believe it is mostly her but him kicking-in a little. Also I am making them scale back, she was unhappy but John actually told her she could not complain when she tried.

OOP on his ex-wife causing lots of turmoil and using Abbie to get to him:

I did not mention it because it already felt like I was writing a novel, but she has had big consequencs with my son, who is furious with her, and my daughter who apparently unloaded on her before mostly cutting her off. It's an entire update length in itself. My daughter pushed my ex-wife's face into a dessert. That's my girl!

Commenter:

What's it going to take before your son wakes up and realizes that this is NOT the person he wants to spend the rest of his life with. She sounds unhinged. NTA. Updateme!

OP replied:

He seems to at least be looking at her more honestly now, I am hoping counseling helps him get there.

Commenter:

Actually, OP, the toxin in this whole mix is your fucking ex-wife. She has twisted and fucked with this girl from day one. I'd bet a bunch that but for the influence of that btch, all of you could have evolved into a nice family dynamic.

Unfortunately the ct you divorced hasn't changed. Your son and daughter should shut her the fk down. She saw that poor girl's insensitivities and has exploited her. Send the venue tab to her attention. Wanton btch.

OP replied:

After seeing the suggestion on here I texted him about 40 minutes ago that he should bill his mom. This is truly awful, she tried alienation when we split but has not done anything to this extent. John said in therapy they are discussing her influence, though understandably he did not get more detailed than that. My son is furious with his mom, I think he sees her more like Sally does now.

Commenter:

Your wife is not helping the situation by letting her be part of this pregnancy. She’s leeching of that and will use that so be part of the family. I have no doubt she will see the child as a sibling and through that loophole see you as her dad. Sorry, but your wife is an idiot right now. Hope your son soon wakes up and leaves her crazy ass.

OP replied:

I agree my wife should have cut her off at least during the pregnancy, she has at least started inviting a friend to go along so they are not usually alone. That alone sometimes gets Abbie to cancel. The sister thing is a concern I have as well.