Woman tells sister; 'It's YOUR fault our family hates your husband, he won't even marry you CUSTOMARILY!' AITA? UPDATED 2X

When this woman tells her sister the truth about her husband, she asks the internet:

"AITA for telling my sister it was her fault nobody likes her husband?"

I'm asking you please to engage in cultural relativity here. You don't have to like our practices, just temporarily accept them to understand this post.

We are from a culture where its customary that a dowry is paid when a woman is married - this a customary marriage (CM) and what one must do in order to start a life.

The CM serves many purposes: it shows you that a man is serious about you: he'll have worked to save and declare his commitment to you and your family; it joins your family to his; its the right way to marry a woman; it honours a womans parents, family and community, and it let's the ancestors know you're leaving the home.

The CM is one of the core principles of our society: we're a family oriented people and that's how families are forged.

Now my sister decided to marry a yt man who's not from our culture. He refused to marry her customarily because it was "demeaning", "barbaric" and "backwards".everyone advised her not to marry a man who viewed her that way but she stuck to him and had a European marriage ceremony.

Our parents weren't supportive but they did attend the church ceremony.

This is already a huge faux pas in our culture. To add insult to injury, her husband is consistently rude and disrespectful to our culture. They live together in our home country.

He comes into my parents home and refers to them by their first names. This is not done with anyone older than you, especially not your in laws. My parents try to look beyond the absence of a customary marriage and treat him like their SiL anyway, but he throws it back in their face each time.

The other men who've married into the family have get togethers and days out: he was invited once then never again. I recently had a baby and my parents slaughtered a cow to host a feast, something that wasn't done when my sister had hers. My mums also moved in temporarily to help me as a first time mum while she only daily visited my sister.

She came crying about preferential treatment and everyone's mean to them. I have a new born: I'm tired and I'm not in the mood. I said It's her fault she's treated the way she is. She chose to abandon her culture to appease a man who thinks shes beneath him.

She then never taught him the culturally appropriate way to behave or conduct himself and he's consistently disrespectful. He has an energy about him that reminiscent of colonial settlers and, duh, none of us like it.

The cow that was slaughtered was one that my husband gave as part of my marriage agreement: her husband never did that so there's no cow to kill.

She chose to carve her own path and turn her back on our ways - nobody forced her to stick to our customs, so she can't force us to stickto our end of the deal. She wants to nice parts of our culture without going through the proper channels: she wants to have her cake and eat it. I told her she was in a mess of her own making. She could either rectify it or learn to live with it. Aita?

Before we give you OP's updates, let's take a look at some of the top responses:

festtq writes:

I'm African and I live in this societal system. I feel like everyone here, if not most are rushing to chew out the husband ( he deserves it) however, this woman knew before signing those papers what she was getting out of this. SHE is the one who allowed this man to stroll in and disrespect her family, culture, race.

The OOP was quite right in telling readers to not preach and so forth but I feel now most have gone too far in the opposite direction in order to not offend the poster or people like me. It is ok to criticism or have opinions about other people's way of life. The issue here is the couple as a unit.

They rushed into something that was bigger than them and ignored all concerns by being in "love denial" to the reality of their situation. These inter cultural unions have to be negotiated thoroughly until both sides are moderately appeased. This couple didn't do this, hence now they are separating. What a shame because nobody wins here.

deaefhtgy writes:

I’m from the East and grew up in the West. A lot of you commenters here are showing your judgement for a different culture just like the OOP said. Are there issues in her culture? Yes absolutely. But there are cultural issues in the west too.

When people immigrate to the West it’s all about assimilation, but when the reverse happens it’s all you guys are backwards. He immigrated to their country. Nobody forced that on him.

It’s perfectly reasonable for him to not be okay with these cultural practices. But it’s not fair for him to marry a person from a culture he doesn’t respect and live that country and culture and judge it.

Every country and every culture have their flaws and their beauties. All of them. But don’t move somewhere if you clearly judge their culture.

sasswreal writes:

What really drives me crazy about all of these dowry/bride price posts is that as long as you don’t use those exact words, Reddit is 100% pro dowry/bride price.

Look at any post that involves poor people having the ”audacity” to get married. You will see thousands of posts absolutely reaming any poor who dares to get married (or god forbid have children) without already having significant money and assets.\

Dowries and bride prices are just the exact same value system that a lot of Redditors already have but formalized. You have to prove you’re capable of saving a certain amount of money and/or procuring certain assets. Not to mention that the western tradition of engagement rings is also literally a bride price paid to the bride. (I, personally, cost 3 months salary. Sorry, not sorry.)

I used to work with a Hmong woman and one of our shitty coworkers very slyly called me over to have her explain how her husband “paid” for her when they got married. (Shitty coworker knew I’m a pretty militant feminist and thought she was going to start some drama at Hmong coworkers expense.) She was shocked and disappointed when I was like, huh that makes sense.

Apparently the tradition is that the guy has to come up with several thousand dollars to give to his gf’s parents when he wants to marry her. (I think it was 5k? Don’t quote me)

Then after the wedding, the brides parents “gift” that money to the couple. Shitty coworker kept acting appalled that Hmong coworker had been “purchased” by her husband but I didn’t see the issue.

I don’t really think it’s that unreasonable to expect someone who wants to be married to prove they can make and save money. Especially if they plan to ask their partner to be a sahp.

annlove writes:

Ok seems like so many people are over looking a huge issue...the sisters husband is a thousand percent racist. We all need to realize that yes, some aspects of some cultures are bad...but just because they're different doesn't automatically make them bad.

For example an arranged marriage. So many people instantly think about how it's a tool for abuse and to force woman into a marriage with an abusive older man.

That in itself is a flawed thought because what?....women in western societies aren't also pressured into abusive marriages and relationships?

Heck even in western societies it's often considered rude to refer to your partners parents by their first names...but because Op was from an Eastern country all of a sudden she's oppressed and abused? Like Jesus the white savior complex is pretty hypocritical.

Also I see so many people calling the parents love conditional but to me it's not? If their family tradition is for the dowry cow to be slaughtered for their first born...then if there's no dowry cow how can they slaughter it?

Also the fact that the mom only visited the sister but lived with Op...you really think her white racist husband would have been OK with her mom actively living with them? And it does seem like everyone tired to include him but his "that's just crazy voodoo" comments are what caused the rift.

He seems like the kind of guy that would demand their children only learn English, and probably frowns upon any cultural differences that she may be teaching their kids.

I'm not saying the dude needs to convert or spend years learning each and every aspect of their culture..but like...be respectful and not racist?

yellowsaaaam writes:

Okay, I just wanted to offer a different perspective on the bride price thing because I too come from a culture that uses dowries and bride prices.

Some people think that a bride price is set as selling off ones daughters. There are some families where you can actually see that that is true…and it’s sad.

But for most normal families. The bride price is not exactly a price on how much your daughter is worth.

It is a token of their future potential spouse’s love. It is a symbol and a promise to the daughter’s parents that they will love you and take care of you because when you spend a lot of money on a car…you take very good care of that car, right? The bride price is just a formality of that promise. The dowry one’s parents gives you is to help you start your life.

And in my culture, part of that dowry for a woman’s daughter who goes off to become someone else’s daughter-in-law is a set of clothes for the daughter to wear at her own funeral, so that should they meet again in the afterlife...

the mother can recognize their daughter after they’ve grown up and grown old, whether they hand embroidered or hand stitched, or handpicked that set of clothes.

Please don’t judge the customs of another persons culture until you grasp the full meanings and symbols of such customs.

And now, OP's 1st update:

Also, I feel being asked if we've learnt his culture is kinda ridiculous given how we're a former colony of his country and his culture is dominant pretty much globally.

I can guarantee most people who have been victims of western imperialism - that is to say basically everyone outside Europe - have at least a basic understanding of your cultures. Forced assimilation and colonialism meant we had no choice but.

The name thing - I know it seems minor to westerners. You don't call people by their first names here unless they're a child. Anyone older than you you don't call by your first name. Your in laws you're supposed to call your parents because you and your spouse are one.

If for example your own parents are mum and dad, you may call your in laws ma and pa. Not comfortable with that? No problem: call them Mr and Mrs, call them aunty and uncle - anything thay recognises their position to you. This is about humbling yourself and showing respect to your elders no matter how old you are.

I had 3000 characters and could fully get into it. Nothing was said as a derogatory term. It was simply a practical choice.

There are too many responses for me to give 1:1 attention, and some are downright antagonistic so I have no interest in engaging. Thanks for engaging and offering feedback. A bigger thanks to those who offered genuinely constructive feedback. Goodnight.

OP's second major update:

People have asked for updates so I shall offer for anyone who cares to know. We had a family meeting at my parents' home about 2 weeks after the original thing went down. My sister called it, and she evidently had a bone to pick.

She yelled at my mum for reasons she yelled at me for: favoritism, preferential treatment, called her a bad parent etc. This made my mum cry and my dad apoplectic. She got a massive dressing down from my dad, something she was wholly unaccustomed to since he's never really told her off (youngest child).

Got to a point where we had a crying sister, crying mother and dad on a war path so my other siblings and I had to play mediation. I asked her what the root cause of it was: some of you called it.

She was realizing how much she's lost out on by marrying a man who doesn't appreciate her culture. She was worried about the implications of the absence of cultural rituals for her children and herself.

Apparently she's experiencing cold shoulders from some people because of the choices she's made: she's very much the social butterfly so it's a difficult pull to swallow.

She went home to ask her partner to reconsider marrying her traditionally. She told him her concerns and how it made her feel and he dismissed it as "voodoo nonsense", saying he thought she was more reasonable than that she's moved back home with my parents while she decided what's next for her relationship.

Before you go on about how disappointed you are that she wants to be married according to our culture and how women are allegedly taking part in their own oppression by doing so, I don't care. Save yourself the trouble of pouring the colonial feminist narrative that we need to be rescued from our cultures. We're good.

Thanks to those who pointed out the blind spot highlighted above. I am working on supporting her and my nephew through this process.